NFPA 54 and 211 deal with chimney standards and sizing for the flue. The oddities we’ve seen where venting is concerned give rise to grave concerns: standard water heaters replacing direct-vent water heaters to shave costs while using the PVC vent line; high-efficiency furnaces or boilers vented into those old unlined masonry chimneys, which by itself is bad enough, yet the older atmospherically vented water heater continues to exhaust into the same chimney! The cold line is always to the right. Installing new water heater .62 natural gas 40,000 btu 50 gallon in masonry chimney that is 30 feet high, only water heater now. $600. But we have yet to discuss the worst: back-drafting is a common problem with orphaned water heaters. Have the liner replaced as soon as possible. Check the flue liner for cracks every fall before the heating season begins. Tell the homeowner, “Sir, you need a chimney liner because your chimney is unlined brick; its flue is too large to support proper drafting of combustion products, which include carbon monoxide. National Fire Protection Association, Inc. CLICK HERE to Get Tim's FREE & FUNNY Newsletter. Share. In other words, the square inch area of the chimney must not be more than seven times greater than the flue piping. Going to line with 3 or 4 inch pipe which size is better and should one wrap the liner in insulation even if chimney is already clay lined. They also protect flue masonry from cracks or crumbling mortar due to repeated heating … Subscribe to the FREE Ask the Builder newsletter to receive professional advice for your home. For many years, the. Measure the diameter of the exhaust pipe leaving your hot water heater. Water vapor is a byproduct of the combustion of natural gas. Can you see the mistake in this photo? Although the water heater does contribute heat to the chimney during its off cycle, it may not be enough to prime the vent so to speak. Proper furnace / water heater venting is an extremely important issue, which depends on the performance of the house chimney / chimney flue or other exhaust assemblies. 316Ti Flexible Chimney Liner Only. It’s required by a number of codes, even though no local inspectors are enforcing them. Today, we’d be either installing a chimney liner or direct-vented high-efficiency appliances. DuraFlex AL is designed for relining masonry chimneys when using natural gas or liquid propane. I want to drop a liner down the chimney dedicated to the water heater and add a cap. 316Ti Flexible Chimney Liner Kits. For optimal use and safety, a liner is needed when installing a new heating system, furnace, boiler, or water heater. This could cause a carbon monoxide poisoning issue. For many years, the American Gas Association (www.aga.org) and the National Fire Protection Association, Inc. (www.nfpa.org) have authored the National Fuel Gas Code. FIREPLACES: FIREPLACE INSERTS: FURNACE & WATER HEATERS: WOOD, CORN & WOOD PELLETS: … Herein lies the problem. As tricky as venting has become with today’s high-efficiency appliances, there’s one thing too many of us are ignoring — orphaned category I appliances and how they relate to these older chimneys. I have helped install a chimney liner on two occasions. That's about 7 sq inches. With efficiencies ranging from 30% to 50%, lots of combustion byproducts needed to be safely vented from homes. A three-story chimney will behave differently from a single-story chimney. These are generally made of aluminium or stainless steel, and are principally used in upgrading and renovating existing chimneys. The liner protects the house from heat transfer to combustibles while being installed in a masonry chimney. On February 16, 2021, Navien will host a live virtual launch event for their new line of boiler and combi-boiler products. A 3-in. Clay tiles as well are frequently used (just like fireplaces) because of their inexpensive cost and durability. Use a flashlight and safety glasses to see as far up the flue as possible. Install smoke caps in the smaller holes and seal them with furnace cement. The inspection shall include verification that the flue or flues being inspected are free of combustible deposits and blockage or obstruction. Open a hot water tap inside the house. Installing a chimney liner helps prevent overheating and promotes energy efficiency. Traditional masonry chimneys were designed and sized to vent very hot flue gases from old coal, wood burning, or low efficiency gas furnaces. Contractor of the Year: John W. Danforth Co. Milwaukee Tools and Uponor – A Partnership for Professionals, Navien, Inc., Announces Boiler and Water Heater Virtual Launch Events. Closer inspection revealed it was a combination of frost and ice. Three water heaters had been installed, too, and each apartment had its own gas meter. The clay tile chimney liner is damaged due to shifting, fire damage, or age- or use-related damage; A new appliance (furnace, stove, or water heater) is being installed and vented via a masonry chimney. This is a kit that allows you to install a stainless-steel liner inside a larger masonry chimney clay flue. Clay tile liners can suffer from the excessive condensation found in the exhaust of higher efficiency gas appliances (furnaces, water heaters, and boilers) and, over time, could cause chimney liner … You’ve seen similar applications, too. Hire a professional chimney sweep to complete the check for cracks in places that are hard to see. It’s required by a number of codes, even though no local inspectors are … Measure the diameter of the exhaust pipe leaving your hot water heater. In other words, code refinements are forthcoming with regards to venting modern fuel burning appliances. Fill any voids with pieces of gravel or brick, and then seal the increaser in place with furnace cement. In 1978, that meant anything above 80%! Tell the homeowner, “Sir, you need a chimney liner because your chimney is unlined brick; its flue is too large to support proper drafting of combustion products, which include carbon monoxide. More over the monthly rental fee turned out to be cheaper that his current supplier’s and it is all under the same Enbridge billing program. White effervescent trails ran from the chimney’s base down the wall and the same white powdery substance was evident at each joint in the combined flue piping. Construction Wage Theft Costs WI, MN, and IL Taxpayers $362 Million Per Year, Bemis Acquires Bio Bidet, Premier Smart Toilets Company, IAPMO Seeks Technical Subcommittee Members for Development of National Standard IAPMO Z1324, Survey: Higher Demand for Integrated Technologies, Healthy Buildings. The giant chimney of the power plant is filled with a column of cold, dense air. Local codes and the International Fuel Gas Code require proper venting and chimney liners for flue gasses to be vented into the outdoor atmosphere. It's vented into an unlined chimney and the back draft is too much for the water heater to create the correct draft. Liners are sized based on the value, in BTU's they are venting and the height of the chimney. The chimney had to be rebuilt with a terracotta liner installed. The vent pipe is reduced in size from the opening provided by the water heater manufacturer. s too much no one else even mentioned wed need an expensive liner you trying to rip us off here? This can, in some instances, create condensation problems inside of masonry chimneys. Install the chimney cap to ensure a good fit then remove and apply silicone on the top edge of the chimney (as shown) and reinstall cap. The following gas water heater … I’d never seen sustained flue gas condensation previously, but the basement floor markings revealed the old coal furnace had been replaced or converted and recently replaced with three new “high-efficiency” boilers. For every 100,000 Btu of combustion, a gallon of condensate can be generated! The U.S. Department of Energy allows for one-minute of back-drafting for orphaned water heaters — maximum. Appliances that burn wood typically use stainless steel but with the addition of a fire proof insulating sock to make sure the flue gas does not cool down when rising in the chimney. My understanding of chimney liners is that as furnaces became more efficient over the years, there's less heat going through the chimney and it has an effect on condensation which will ruin the chimney from the inside out. CHIMNEY LINER Choice of: TOP-Flex Aluminum Liners; MORTAR COLLAR Choice of: TOP-Flex Aluminum Mortar Collar; CONNECTION Slip the end of the Aluminum Liner directly onto the outside of the unit's collar. Metal Chimney Liners. The new furnace vents directly through the wall to the exterior. These systems of chimney liners are listed and tested by the U.L., and are quite harmless and sturdy when correctly mounted and sustained. In the NBS tests, unlined chimneys allowed heat to move through the chimney … All rights reserved. Oil equipment usually requires stainless steel liners due to the corrosive nature of the flue gas. If that were to happen, it could drag some of the exhaust gas back into your basement. 3'' DuraFlexAL 35' Aluminum Chimney Liner Kit - 3DFA-35K Brand: DuraVent. By CTH Experts On Nov 17, 2008 Last updated Jul 1, 2020. If the exhaust pipe is 4 inches in diameter, the flue liner cross sectional area should not … Water vapor is a byproduct of the combustion of natural gas. The gas hot water heater, though, is still vented through the original chimney. Rock-Flex chimney liners are fabricated with the highest quality stainless steel, UL 1777 tested and listed, air and water tight, and provide the best flexibility and strength to contain moisture and flue gases. Aluminum chimney liners typically are used on gas appliances like gas water heaters. Its located on top of the water heater. water heater flue is just a bit more than 7-sq.in., so the chimney must not be greater than 49-sq.in. If your home doesn’t currently have a chimney liner, technician upgrading a water heater must properly install a chimney liner to bring your hot water heater up to TSSA standards. Many building codes mandate that once modified or changed, all fuel burning appliance vents must be sized according to code. ANSI Z21.10.1 governing water heaters of 75,000 Btuh or less mandates a maximum allowable limit of 400 PPM for CO. These two public servants should provide you with the information to ensure your hot water heater and your chimney meets code. If your furnace and water heater currently vents into your chimney; having a chimney liner will protect it. Your chimney's existing flue liner may be oversized for the orphaned water heater. This process kept the inside of the chimney warm. If it is a 3-inch-diameter pipe, the inside cross sectional area of the chimney flue liner should not exceed 49 square inches. Lined chimneys vs. unlined chimneys, and so on. These liner systems are U.L. It locks in moisture and flue gases in your chimney and keeps them out of your home. Low moisture content cement and vermiculite mortars can also be used to create a new inner lining. Liners insulate heat moving through the chimney, protecting flammable areas of your home's structure. Make sure this fits by entering your model number. The ice-sheen that had caught my attention led to the chimney’s protrusion at the roofline and it was obvious its shape outlined the chimney’s exact route and dimensions from basementto- roof. After this discovery, the homeowner immediately installed four-inch pipe from the heater to the chimney. The exhaust gas temperature of modern gas furnaces and water heaters is much lower than past appliances because much more heat is harvested so you waste less money up your chimney. Air … CLICK HERE to get FREE & FAST BIDS from local chimney sweeps who can inspect your chimney for defects. © Copyright 2017 Tim Carter eval(ez_write_tag([[468,60],'askthebuilder_com-box-3','ezslot_19',116,'0','0'])); DEAR TIM: I recently had my heating system replaced with a high efficiency system. Favret will typically install the liner, Frary said, unless the water heater and furnace are on separate chimney chases. 13. It's best to use a stainless steel chimney liner if you're high-efficiency water heater or furnace exhausts into a masonry chimney. That heat source has been removed. This is a kit that allows you to install a stainless-steel liner inside a larger masonry chimney clay flue. This unique alloy is designed specifically to resist acids coming from gas appliances in the flue and extreme stresses of hot and cold cycles. The rules also state that orphaned water heaters vented into an unlined masonry chimney require the installation of a properly sized liner. The result of those calculation using a 38,000 BTU water heater with a 3" draft hood and a 37,500 BTU boiler with a 4" draft hood connected to a 20' high chimney is to use a common flue with an area of 28 square inches or a 6" flue vs a 5" flue in the previous examples. Another live event on March 16, 2021 will introduce Navien’s latest water heater innovations. Why are direct vent water heaters so expensive? I've got a 40 gallon atmospheric-vented water heater that is not venting correctly. Chimneys — you can’t live with them and you can’t live without them — or at least you couldn’t until a few years ago. Annual service included opening the base of the chimney to remove crumbled masonry products, dead birds and you’d occasionally encounter live animals using the chimney for a home. Complete the form below and each week you'll get: Unsubscribe at any time. The other alternative would be to include the cost for a new direct-vent water heater and abandon the chimney completely.”, “Forget it; I’m going with the other guy.”. The rules also state that orphaned water heaters vented into an unlined masonry chimney require the installation of a properly sized liner. Our Chicago customer's chimney was in bad shape-- the exhaust from the furnace and water heater had rotted the liner in the chimney. The flue piping looked like Swiss cheese! CLICK THIS IMAGE NOW TO BUY THIS KIT. New Jersey Uniform Construction Code requires a chimney certification for replacement of a hot water heater, furnace or boiler. A Stainless Steel chimney liner is air and water tight. Gas Water Heater and Furnace Chimney Flue Size Calculations The basic method for the chimney flue size calculations is "The Seven Times Rule" (applies to natural draft and / or fan assisted type appliances vented into the same chimney). They upgraded to a high efficiency gas furnace that now vents out the side of the house via PVC pipe. The kind of damage I saw in 1978 caused what’s called “spalling” — a freeze/thaw cycle when moisture penetrates masonry products and expansion causes portions to flake off or crack and crumble. tested and listed, and if properly installed and maintained are extremely safe and durable. A chimney liner is a flexible aluminum tube that connects to your furnace and/or water heater and has a rain cap on the top of it. We respect your email privacy. Back when coal was king and urban homes were built (pre-1920 to 1930), large bore masonry brick-andmortar unlined chimneys dominated the landscape. Size, height, exposure (inside the structure, partially exposed or outside) and localized weather conditions all come into play, so there are no one-size-fits-all categories. Robert K., Norwich, CT. DEAR ROBERT: Venting of any fuel burning appliance is serious business. No longer a blastfurnace- like exhaust to build and maintain buoyant hot exhaust fumes, this was more like a pipe-organ-exhaust with each tenant possessing one of the keys to strike up an exhaust tune. Multiplied times 7 in the code, you're chimney cannot be more than 49 sq inches of interior area. 4.8 out of 5 stars 3 ratings. Choose a venting method for more information on what you may need. If the inside of the chimney cools down too much or there is too much cold air inside the chimney, the water vapor can condense and saturate the masonry inside the chimney before it can escape into the atmosphere. During one winter’s service call for a heating problem, I noticed the exterior north wall of the home had a shiny appearance. The dynamics of drafting are complicated. Flexible chimney liners are only to be installed inside a masonry chimney. In the new house I am buying, the furnace and hot water heater have were both replaced by the current owners. Back when coal was king and urban homes were built (pre-1920 to 1930), large bore masonry brick-andmortar, What portion of your quote for my new high-efficiency furnace was for the chimney- liner?”, “That’s too much — no one else even mentioned we’d need an expensive liner — you trying to rip us off here?”. Around here, most tile liners are 6.5 x 10" and a smaller liner is needed. Install an increaser in the largest hole in the chimney. Orphaned Category I units Those are the more obvious issues facing us today as category I appliances now share mechanical rooms with category III and IV appliances. Secure with Zip Screws. diameter flue is 12.588-sq.in. Our stainless chimney liners are primarily used to upgrade and repair existing chimneys. This code, as well as other uniform building codes, contain tables and charts that people use to properly size and install chimneys for fuel burning appliances. © Copyright 2017 Tim Carter, Chimney flue size must match water heater, Currently, there are many organizations that produce building codes. Each event will offer insight on the newest products from Navien and allow attendees to interact and ask questions live with the Navien team. It was a classic case of sustained flue gas condensation, which contains both nitric and sulfuric acids. Chimney liners are a protective barrier usually made of metal or ceramic. Chimney Problems Gas Water Heater Heating System. The vent for your recently orphaned water heater may not have been checked by the furnace installer. There is, however, a somewhat reliable rule of thumb to give us a line that we should not cross where safety is paramount: the chimney’s dimension should not exceed the connecting flue’s dimension by more that sevento- one. Flue gas produced by your furnace and water heater contains acids . Sometimes the condensed water contains acids that can chemically attack poor quality mortars. After this discovery, the homeowner immediately installed four-inch pipe from the heater to the chimney. It minimizes heat loss and helps maintain optimal airflow in your chimney. Price: $219.47 & FREE Shipping: This fits your . There are approved corrugated metal pipes that you can snake down the chimney and connect to the exhaust pipe of your heater. There simply wouldn't be enough room to handle all the smoke and ash. My water heater is now the only thing venting into the masonry chimney. Maintenance Tip #1 Preparing the water heater Turn off the power if its an electric water heater. Can you see the mistake in this photo? 741. The conditions explained in this post also apply to the wood burning appliances. 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Plant is filled with a cracked liner unlined chimney and keeps them out of your local building or Department... Of back-drafting for orphaned water heaters equipment usually requires stainless steel chimney installed. To discuss the worst: back-drafting is a common problem with orphaned water heaters: wood CORN. Appliances like gas water heaters — maximum a few years ago exhaust up your house chimney water to chimney..., too, and then seal the increaser in place with furnace cement possible. Are FREE of combustible deposits and blockage or obstruction directly through the original chimney appliances like gas heaters. Acids slowly corrode the brick and mortar that make up your chimney the chimney-?. Information on what you may need specifically to resist acids coming from gas appliances like gas water heaters 17! Of the power plant tried to exhaust up your house chimney liner for water heater a number of,. 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